Spread your good mind to others / 把你的好心传给别人。
In this episode we talk with Claire about her lunar new year monster story, its themes of fear and generosity and why the color red and fireworks are so closely linked with this celebration. We also discuss language difference and connection, and fascinating concepts like Tao that can teach us more about living well with others.
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[Speaker 1]
Speaking in Mandarin
[Speaker 1]
The Legend of the Nian Beast: Once upon a time, according to legend, in ancient China, there was a monster called Nian who lived deep in the sea all year round…
(music)
[Speaker 2]
Welcome to Storytelling Translationships. You were just listening to a clip from Claire's story, Lunar New Year, in Mandarin and in English. To hear the full version, please visit our website, translationships.net. I am Cristina Sánchez-Martín and my co-host Taiko Aoki-Marcial and I sat down with Claire who told us more about the story, the possibilities of connecting these by language differences, and fascinating concepts like Tao that can teach us more about living well with others.
[Speaker 3]
All right, Claire, thank you so much for coming and speaking with us today. I think maybe we can start off by just, can you tell us a little bit about who you are, your name, you know, where you're from, anything else that you think you want to share with people who are listening?
[Speaker 1]
Okay. Hi, my name is Claire. I'm from Taiwan. I have been to America for seven months, seven to eight months. I love to live in Seattle because this city is really beautiful.
[Speaker 2]
Me too. Okay, so during the winter, we learned about storytelling and you told a story, Lunar New Year, right? Can you tell us a little bit more about it? Can you provide a short summary of what the story is about for those who haven't read it or listened to it yet?
[Speaker 1]
Yeah, no problem. I would like to ask everyone, do you know why Chinese people would like to decorate their home in red or why they always wear red color and display firework during Chinese New Year? There's a very good reason, because there's a legendary story that once upon a time, there is a Nian monster, always attacked people on every Chinese New Year's Eve. And one day, a wise man who visit a village and to beg for some food when the villager escaped from the monster. He told a woman who was the only person to help him that he can drive away the monster if let him stay her house for one night. And why the Nian monster went away because he was afraid of the red color and the firework sound. So, after that, people started to follow a wise man’s suggestion and wear red clothes and display firework to keep all beasts away. And next day, they visited their friends and congratulate their friends in the first of New Year. That's why people, why Chinese people love to wear red color and display fireworks.
[Speaker 3]
I learned, I always, I knew that red was really important for the new year in Chinese New Year and Lunar New Year, that red was like a really special color and really important. But I never knew kind of the story behind that until you told that story. So thank you.
[Speaker 1]
You're welcome. I'm happy to tell everyone this great story.
[Speaker 3]
Can you also tell us maybe your memories around the story and the details of the story? Like when did you first hear it? Who did you hear it from? Like where were you? What is the context in which this story kind of came to you in the first place?
[Speaker 1]
I don't remember exactly, but I think I heard this story when I was in elementary school. I think I knew this story from the book, which I borrowed from my neighbor. When I was young, my neighbor, my neighbor's parents always buy a lot of a books for my neighbor. And because I really love to read stories. So I borrow from them and then they have one story that is this story. So, and also, I think one day I have ever asked my grandma about why we display fireworks during Chinese New Year and why we need to wear red color, why we have a red envelope, something about the question I asked my grandpa and grandma. And then my grandma and grandpa taught me, we do that, they will give a good fortune. Yeah. It will bring good fortune to us. But maybe they don't know the reason. So after that, I read the story. So I just realized, oh, because there is a Nian monster story. So that's why people wear red color. Yeah.
[Speaker 3]
Are there other are there other stories about, is the Nian monster is this like a character or you know like is this a figure that appears in other places in other stories or is it just in the story this monster?
[Speaker 1]
Only in this this story. It's interesting, right?
[Speaker 3]
Yeah.
[Speaker 2]
Yeah. There is a student in the program where I teach from Taiwan as well, who gave me a children's book about the red envelopes and about the red color too. And it's written in Mandarin and in English so that I could read it. Yeah, I want to show it to you at some point, because it's really beautiful.
But speaking about that, we wanted to ask what it meant to you to tell the story in Mandarin and in English, since you told the story in both languages. And was the retelling process similar or different? Did anything change when you were telling the story in English as opposed to Mandarin? And what would you tell the teachers that you work with about this process of retelling the story in different languages?
[Speaker 1]
I think most of the part are similar. When we describe a story, they will, the word describe a sound or describe like a poetry. And it is hard to translate in English. So sometimes it's quite hard to describe. I only can use a similar. But actually, it is not 100% then in Chinese. Yeah. Yeah, but it happened because some of words, we cannot translate.
[Speaker 2]
Do you remember any specific examples? It's okay if you don't. But just thinking back maybe.
[Speaker 1]
I didn't remember that. Maybe I can find it. Like, okay, letter sound like called Ping Ping Pam Pam. Ping Ping Pam Pam. This is a sound, sound word in Chinese. It describes firework, firework displaying. But it's hard to translate in English. Like ping ping pam pam, do you have a ping ping pam pam this sound in English? Yeah, that is one. Oh, and there is one word as Chinese called people shouting and horse also shouting. That actually is poetry. But this word, this sentence is also hard, hard to translate in English. If I translate each of words, there will be people shouting, horse shouting, but it's not correct to translate each of words, right? So like this sentence, I don't know how to describe in English. I only can say I describe like chaos. People run around and the situation like chaos, something like that.
[Speaker 3]
That's so interesting. I want to, what is the word? How do you say the word that is people shouting and horses shouting?
[Speaker 1]
In Chinese we call 人 (rén), 喊 (hǎn), 马 (mǎ).
[Speaker 3]
Four words.
[Speaker 1]
Yeah, four words 人 (rén) mean is people. 喊 (hǎn) mean is shouting, screaming. 马 (mǎ) horse. 是 (shì) mean is horse is shouting. So these words are hard. How can I describe horse shouting in English?
[Speaker 3]
I think you did. I mean, the idea of chaos, you know, when I think about like people, you know, like people shouting and horse shouting, I think the way you described it makes a lot of sense, like that idea of, you know, like chaos and...
[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it's the one there's one example. It's not a good example, but it’s similar. Can you imagine 911? When 9911 happened, it is chaos, right? And you can imagine so many people and even animal run away and shouting for help. And maybe dog barking or yeah, because it's very chaos. This has just come to my mind.
[Speaker 3]
Yeah, that is a good example of chaos for sure.
[Speaker 1]
Some of Chinese words are hard to exactly translate in English. Yeah, I only just can, only can use a similar meaning.
[Speaker 3]
Going back to what Cristina was asking just a little bit, like, keeping that in mind, like how difficult it is, you know, to translate certain ideas or certain words. What do you think your, your teachers or like English teachers that you work with should know or how should they keep this in mind when, when you're talking about stories or talking about language or talking about translation?
[Speaker 1]
I think, in this case, I would ask my teacher, does it have a similar story or similar meaning in Western country that I can refer to or use to explain my story? So people can, when people read my story in English version, if they have a reference, they may more understanding what I'm talking about. Yeah, because they have a story from their country and which they be familiar. Oh, that's what you want to describe. Your culture, your story. Yeah, but maybe, yeah, maybe there's no exactly the same story in Western side, but if, if have that will be that would be great.
[Speaker 3]
I like that idea of just like seeing if there's connections that people can make to, you know, like to the to what they already know to like understand a new story better, even if it's not always possible, you know, I like that idea a lot.
[Speaker 2]
Okay, moving on to the next question. We see that in the story, community and relationships seem to be important themes. For example, at first, everyone in the community except for one old woman ignores the old man who comes asking for food and shelter, but this old man is the only one who ends up knowing how to keep the village safe. So does this story help us to understand how people can be in relationship to others, both strangers as well as friends and family, and how so?
[Speaker 1]
I would say people, because people, most, some of people, they don't have enough wisdom to solve the problem, even though no matter connect with people. That's why you can see more and more people, they have a less and less true heart, less and less considerate other people's feelings, yeah. So in this story, people only care about whether they're sad, care about their life. That's not wrong thing, but if you can also consider others and our society, our country, or our neighborhood, will be, will be better, right? So there is one word we call the virtuous, virtuous cycle, right? So this story also teach people, need to care not only yourself, but also others, right? So like the wise man, in this story, there's a one wise man, actually he saved everyone's life, right? People no need to escape every Chinese New Year's Eve after finding a solution. So…
[Speaker 2]
That makes sense.
[Speaker 1]
Yeah, so I think in this story lens, I found that there also have not only, not only tell everyone about Chinese culture, but also teach people you need to be very kind and and see the right to your, to others.
[Speaker 3]
That's a great thing. I guess that goes kind of to, that goes kind of to our last question or the question that we're gonna think about next, which is, what do you think is important about sharing the story? Or what do you think, what do you want people who listen to it or to read it, what do you want them to take away from it?
[Speaker 1]
Yeah, this great story to teach people. Most people, most of people choose to escape mentally when they make difficulties. In fact, the correct attitude is to find a solution or correct method to fundamentally solve it, right? Otherwise, you cannot always just, always to escape or hide the problem, right? You need to face it and look at it and solve it. So in Chinese, we call this is Tao. The Tao is from nature. When you see someone need to help and just help because that is from your nature of heart. So we call Tao. Yeah.
And how to inspire people? I think people need to learn, to find a way, to find a class, to learn. Then spread to others, spread your good mind to others. So that's why I also study something about Tao, something about how to, what is the correct way to be a right person. Yeah.
[Speaker 2]
That's so beautiful. I love those takeaways. It's giving me a lot to think about and to try to do better as well.
[Speaker 3]
Yeah, it makes me also want to explore more about that idea. I know I've heard the, you know, like the concept of Tao before. It makes me want to explore and learn more about that concept and that idea, because it seems so important.
[Speaker 1]
Yes.
[Speaker 3]
Well, that's a great-- I think that's a great final idea or message to leave it on.
[Speaker 2]
Yeah.
[Speaker 1]
Yes.
(music)
———————————————————
Credits
[Speaker 3]
This podcast has been produced with the support from Humanities WA, the University of Washington Simpson Center and the College of Arts & Sciences and a National Endowment for the Humanities Challenge Grant. Special thanks to our guests for generously sharing the treasures that these stories are for their families and communities. More information on their stories and others involved in this project can be found on our podcast website, translationships.net.
[Speaker 2]
The title of our podcast was inspired by the Force 11 Open, Multilingual and Global Scholarly Communication (OMG) working group, which challenges the “global scholarly communication community [to] develop more openly and equitably “trans-lationships” (translational relationships) across cultures, languages, regions, boundaries, disciplines and worldviews” (Del Río Riande, Lujano, and O’Donnell 2020) as it appears in Spence and Brandao’s article “Towards Language Sensitivity and Diversity in the Digital Humanities.”
[Speaker 3]
Our collaborators for this project include language and pedagogical support from Shariliz Poveda, Eloisa Aguirre, Francisco Siderey, and Bixin Fu; technology and logistical support from Frank Macarthy and Elliott Stevens.
The intro song is a remix of Mercedes Sosa’s Balderrama by Kermesse, a group from Buenos Aires, formed in 2015 by duo, Fase and Gurtz (aka Muno) licensed under the creative commons.
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在本集節目中，我們將與克萊兒暢談她農曆新年怪獸的故事，探討其恐懼與仁慈的議題，以及為什麼紅色和鞭炮會與這個節日如此的緊密連結。我們也探討語言的差異與連結，以及像「道」這樣富有意涵的理念，讓我們從中學習良善、學習如何與他人和諧共處。
[講者1]
國語演講
今天我要說中國年為何家家戶戶穿紅色的衣服、貼春聯、放鞭炮的來由。
相傳中國古時候有種叫做「年」的怪獸，長年深居在海底…
[講者1]
英文演講
年獸的傳說：很久很久以前，相傳中國古時有種叫做「年」的怪獸，牠長年居住在深海中…
（音樂）
[講者2]
歡迎收聽「故事翻譯」（Storytelling Translationships）。您剛剛聽到的是克萊兒(Claire)分享的《農曆新年》國語和英文的故事片段。如想聽完整故事內容，歡迎造訪我們的網站 translationships.net。
我是克莉絲蒂娜.桑切斯.馬丁(Cristina Sánchez-Martín)，我與共同主持人 太子.青木-馬西奧爾（Taiko Aoki-Marcial）一起訪談了克萊兒（Claire），她不僅分享了更多關於這個故事的背景，也談到語言差異下如何將彼此連結的可能性，以及像「道」這樣富有哲理的概念，能帶給我們更多關於與人和諧共處的啟發。
[講者3]
好的，Claire，非常感謝妳今天來跟我們分享。我想我們可以先從自我介紹開始，你可以簡單介紹一下你自己嗎？像是你的名字、你來自哪裡，還有任何你覺得想讓聽眾了解的事情都可以喔！[講者 1]
好的，大家好，我叫克萊兒（Claire），我來自台灣。我來美國大約七、八個月了。我很喜歡住在西雅圖，因為這個城市真的很漂亮。
[講者 2]
我也很喜歡西雅圖。好的，那在冬季的時候，我們學了關於「說故事」的課程，而你分享了一個關於農曆新年的故事，對吧？你可以再多跟我們聊聊這個故事嗎？也請你簡單幫大家介紹一下這個故事的內容，讓還沒讀過或聽過的人能夠有些概念。
[講者 1]
沒問題。首先我想先問大家一個問題：你們知道為什麼中國人在過年的時候喜歡用紅色裝飾家裡，或者為什麼大家都會穿紅色、放鞭炮嗎？這其實有一個很特別的原因，是來自一個遠古的傳說故事。從前從前，有一隻叫做「年」的怪獸，每到除夕夜就會出來攻擊人們。有一天，一位智者來到一個村莊，想要討點食物吃，那時候村民們正在逃避年獸。只有一位婦人願意幫助他。這位智者就告訴她，如果讓他在她家住一晚，他有辦法把怪獸趕走。
結果真的成功了！原來「年獸」害怕紅色和鞭炮的聲音。從那之後，大家就開始照著智者的建議做，穿紅色衣服、放鞭炮來嚇走怪獸。
除夕隔天，也就是新年的第一天，人們就會去拜訪親友，互相道賀平安。這就是為什麼中國人在過年時喜歡穿紅色、放鞭炮的原因。
[講者 3]
我一直知道紅色在農曆新年很重要，是一個很特別而且很有象徵意義的顏色。但我一直都不知道背後原來有這個故事，直到你講了以後我才了解。謝謝你分享。[講者 1]
不客氣！我很開心能跟大家分享這麼棒的故事。[講者 3]
你能不能跟我們分享一下你對這個故事的記憶和細節？比如說，你第一次聽到這個故事是在什麼時候？是誰跟你說的？當時你在哪裡？這個故事最初是怎麼出現在你生命中的？[講者 1]
我不太記得確切時間，但我想我是在小學的時候聽到這個故事的。我想應是從鄰居家借的書裡知道這個故事。小時候鄰居的爸媽常常買很多書給他們，因為我很愛看故事書，所以我經常跟他們借書。其中有一本書裡面有這個故事。
還有，有一次我問過我的奶奶，為什麼過年要放鞭炮、為什麼要穿紅色衣服，還有紅包是怎麼來..等等相關問題，爺爺奶奶就跟我說，我們這樣做是為了招來好運氣，我猜他們大概也不太知道背後的原因。
後來我看了那個故事才知道，原來是因為年獸的傳說，所以大家才會在過年穿紅色衣服、放鞭炮。
[講者 3]
還有其他關於年獸的故事嗎？年獸是一個特定的角色嗎？還是說它會出現在其他故事或地方？還是年獸只有在這個故事裡特有的呢？
[講者 1]
就只有出現在這個故事裡耶。蠻有趣的對吧？
[講者 3]
是的。
[講者 2]
對啊，我教的課程裡也有一位來自台灣的學生，他送了我一本關於紅包和紅色意義的兒童繪本。那本書是中英文對照的，讓我也能閱讀。我很想哪天跟你分享，因為它真的很漂亮。
說到這個，我們也想問問你，用中文和英文講這個故事，對你來說有什麼特別的意義嗎？因為你是用兩種語言講這個故事。在重述故事的過程，兩種語言有什麼相似或不同的地方嗎？有沒有什麼改變？或讓你特別有感的地方？
另外，你會怎麼跟你合作的老師們分享或建議，用不同語言重新講故事的過程？
[講者 1]
我覺得大部分的內容是差不多的。不過在講故事的時候，有些詞是用來形容聲音，或者有點像詩、成語的那種語感，這種就比較難翻譯成英文。所以有時候要表達就會有點困難，我只能用差不多意思的詞來代替，但其實沒有辦法百分之百傳達中文原本的感覺。
對啊，因為有些字真的就是沒辦法翻得那麼精準。[講者2]
你還記得有沒有什麼具體的例子嗎？如果不記得也沒關係，就回想看看。
[講者 1]
我現在想不起來，不過也許我可以再去找找看。喔，像有一個例子，就是那個「砰砰啪啪」的聲音，「砰砰啪啪」這是中文裡形容炮竹燃燒的聲音，是一種擬聲詞。但將這聲音翻成英文就很難。英文有「砰砰啪啪」這種聲音嗎？這就是一個例子。
還有一句是中國成語「人喊馬嘶」，這句要翻成英文也很難。如果我逐字翻譯的話，就會變成「人叫、馬叫」，可是這樣的翻法是不對的，意思會跑掉。所以像這種句子，我就不知道該怎麼用英文表達，我只能大概描述為-是一種混亂的場面，人們跑來跑去、到處逃命的場面，類似這樣的感覺。
[講者 3]
哇，這真的很有趣。我想知道，那個詞是什麼？就是你說的「人喊馬叫」那個詞，要怎麼說？
[講者 1]
中文裡我們說「人（rén）、喊（hǎn）、馬（mǎ）、嘶（sī）」。
[講者 3]
四個字。
[講者 1]
對，四個字。「人」（rén）是人，「喊」（hǎn）是叫喊、尖叫的意思，「馬」（mǎ）是馬，「嘶」（sī）就是馬叫的聲音。所以這幾個字真的很難翻。像「馬嘶」這個要怎麼翻成英文？「馬在叫」英文應怎麼說才比較自然？
[講者3]
我覺得你有表達出來耶。就是那種混亂的感覺，像你說的，大家都在喊叫啊，連馬也都在嘶吼，你用「混亂」來形容那個情境，真的非常貼切，也讓人很容易理解你想表達的意境。
[講者 1]
對，我剛好想到一個例子，雖然不是一個很好的例子，但感覺是類似的。你可以想像 911 發生的時候，那種場面就是一種混亂，對吧？你可以想像有很多人，甚至動物，都在逃命、呼喊求救，狗狗可能也一直吠叫之類的，整個現場就是一片混亂。我剛剛突然想到這個畫面。
[講者3]
對，這確實是一個非常典型的混亂場面的例子。
[講者 1]
有一些中文的詞真的很難準確地翻成英文，我只能用意思相近的詞來表達。
[講者3]
回到剛剛 Cristina 問的問題，想到你剛才提到有些想法或詞彙真的很難翻譯，那你覺得你的老師，或者是跟你一起工作的英文老師，，應該知道些什麼？又或者他們在談論故事、語言或翻譯的時候，應該要怎麼意識、看待這些困難呢？
[講者 1]
我覺得在這種情況下，我會詢問老師，西方國家有沒有類似的故事或意涵可以參考，用來幫助我解釋自己的故事。因為如果大家在讀英文版本故事時，有一個他們熟悉的故事可以參照，可能會更容易理解我想表達的是什麼。因為他們能聯想到自己文化中熟悉的故事，就會領悟「喔，原來你想描述的你的文化、你的故事原來是這個。」
雖然可能在西方文化中不會有完全一樣的故事，但如果有類似的，那真的會很有幫助。
[講者3]
我很喜歡這個想法，就是透過讓人們將他們原本熟悉的事物與新的故事建立連結，這樣就能更好地理解一個新的故事。雖然不一定每次都能成功找到，但我還是很喜歡這個概念。
[講者2]
好的，接下來進入下一個問題。在這個故事裡，其實可以感覺到「社群」跟「人際關係」是很重要的主題。像一開始，整個村子裡除了那個老婆婆，其他人都不理會那個來乞求食物和住宿的老人，但最後卻只有這個老人知道如何保護整個村莊。所以這個故事是不是也幫助我們去思考人跟人之間的關係？無論是對陌生人，還是朋友和家人，你覺得這個故事是怎麼呈現這個觀點的呢？
[講者1]
我認為這個故事其實是想讓我們思考「人」本身。因為現實中，很多人在面對問題時，缺乏足夠的智慧，特別是在處理人際關係方面。這就是為什麼你會看到，越來越多人缺乏真誠，越來越少人去體諒別人的感受。
在這個故事裡，村民們只關心自己的生命與感受，這樣的行為本身並沒有錯，但如果大家也能多考慮別人、多關心社會、國家或鄰里，那我相信生命的本質與社會整體會變得更好，對吧？
這其實也呼應了一個概念，就是「良性循環」。我認為這個故事的價值就在於，它提醒大家：我們不只是要照顧自己，也要關心別人。像故事中那位智者，最後正是因為他的智慧與善舉，才讓整個村莊得以平安，從此村民不需要在每年的除夕夜逃離家園。
[講者2]
這很有道理。
[講者1]
是的，透過這個故事，我認為它不僅是在介紹中國文化，同時也在教導人們慷慨善良，關懷他人的重要性。[講者3]
這真的是很棒觀點。我想這也呼應我們最後一個問題，或者說與我們接下來要討論的最後一個問題，那就是：你覺得分享這個故事有什麼重要的意義？或者說，您希望聽眾或讀者能從中獲得什麼樣的啟發或收穫？
[講者1]
是的，這確實是一個非常有啟發性的故事，可以教導人們一些重要的道理。現實生活中，大多數人在遇到困難時，往往會選擇心靈上逃避。但其實，正確的態度應該是去尋找解決的方法，從根本地面對和處理問題。如果只是一直逃避、掩蓋問題，那問題永遠無法真正被解決。我們應該要學習面對困難，正視問題，並積極地尋求解決方法。
在中華文化，我們稱這樣的理念為「道」。道是來自自然。就像當你看到有人需要幫助時，你會出自內心去幫助他，那就是一種順著本心而行的自然，我們稱之為「道」。
那要怎麼啟發別人呢？我覺得人需要學習，要去找方法，去上課，透過學習來成長。然後再把這些好的想法、正向的心念傳遞給其他人。
這也是為什麼我自己也在學習一些與「道」相關的知識，學習什麼是正確的做人處事態度，什麼才是「對」的人生道路。
對，就是這樣。
[講者2]
這真的很美，我很喜歡你分享的這些想法。它們帶給我很多啟發、反思的空間，也激勵我要努力變得更好。
[講者3]
對，我也覺得這讓我更想去深入了解這個概念。我以前其實有聽過「道」這個詞，但聽你分享後，現在更想去探索、學習它的內涵與意義。因為它看起來真的非常重要。
[講者1]
是的。
[講者3]
我覺得這真的是個很棒的結尾，留給大家一個很好的想法。
[講者2]
對呀。[講者1]
沒錯。（音樂）
[講者3]
本節目感謝人文華盛頓（Humanities WA）、華盛頓大學辛普森中心（University of Washington Simpson Center）、文理學院（College of Arts & Sciences）以及國家人文基金會挑戰獎助金（National Endowment for the Humanities Challenge Grant）的支持。特別感謝我們的來賓，慷慨地分享這些對他們家庭與社群來說彌足珍貴的故事。
更多關於這些故事與本計畫其他參與者的資訊，請參考我們的節目網站：translationships.net。
[講者2]
我們節目的名稱靈感來自於 Force 11 的開放、多語言及全球學術交流工作組（Open, Multilingual and Global Scholarly Communication，簡稱 OMG）。該小組挑戰「全球學術交流社群，致力於更開放且公平地發展跨越文化、語言、地區、邊界、學科與世界觀的『翻譯關係』（trans-lationships，意即跨譯關係）」（Del Río Riande、Lujano 與 O’Donnell，2020），此理念出自 Spence 與 Brandao 所著《邁向數位人文的語言敏感度與多樣性》（“Towards Language Sensitivity and Diversity in the Digital Humanities”）一文。
[講者3]
本專案的協作者包括語言與教學支援： Shariliz Poveda、Eloisa Aguirre、Francisco Siderey 以及 Bixin Fu；技術與後勤支持則由 Frank Macarthy 和 Elliott Stevens 協助完成。
節目開場曲為梅賽德斯·索薩（Mercedes Sosa）經典歌曲《Balderrama》，由布宜諾斯艾利斯樂團Kermesse混音改編。該團體於2015年由雙人組合Fase與Gurtz（又名Muno）成立，並採用創用
